I observe a lot of professional play and I'm aware that a lot of others in the clan do as well. I think that a lot of people are trying to mimic high level play and I see it a lot on ladder as well. I would advise against this. A majority of professional builds require that you play super-greedy and have ridiculous scouting skills so that you can react to an attack at the exact last second and gain the most economical advantage possible. Most players,including myself, do not have the mechanics and multitasking required to do so. I'm not saying you should all in every game, just that you may find greater success in doing some creative or aggressive builds and working on mechanics before seeing something on a stream and trying to execute it.
No one cared who I was until I took the helm.
Commander of the CFS-Excalibur
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Rather than wasting your time learning hundreds of builds for each matchup,
learning ONE solid build for each matchup will get you to Diamond League VERY quickly.
All you need to do is also keep your macro in check.
I got to Platinum League just by getting my macro down and getting 1 build down for each matchup,
you guys can do the same.
ZZZ The Confederation Admiral United Military Command *Salutes*
I kinda disagree - I'm not saying that 3 bases in 6 minutes is a good thing, but for example,
Apollo has a terran tutorial that basically taught me the reaper fast expand, and along with it, the improvement of defending attacks and reacting. It allows you to get the most long-term use-worthy practice out of each game by allowing you to focus on macro and fending off attacks. If you do these two things successfully, you can probably a-move your army and kill them after they throw theirs away. I definitely agree with one single build for each matchup, but if macro is one of the biggest things between us and pros, we should get as much practice with it as possible. ...imo.
Last edited by DirTyBiRD on Sat Sep 28, 2013 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just as an addition to this discussion, I think that looking at pro builds is a good gauge of where your own execution stands, so as a benchmark, it works. However, Tenshender is correct because at lower levels pure mimicking without understanding the reasoning is something that will cause more frustration and slower learning speed for newer players who need to be working on basic scouting skills, basic mechanical skills, basic macro and basic multi-tasking techniques.
When choosing builds, as a beginner, it is important to choose the simpler builds first. 1-2 base all-ins are great starts to acquire some of the required basic skills. For example, to learn how to use warpgate tech comfortably, the best way to practice is to 4 gate every game until you can execute that build in your sleep and can know the basic timings for every unit being warped in and their cooldown cycles as well as how long it takes for warpgate to research.
Knowing this, you can move on to less aggressive builds on 2 bases which require some knowledge of multi-tasking and economy management. Mastering 2 base strategy gets you the basics to now try to do 3 base strategies which now rely a lot more on macro skills and keeping up constant worker production. In addition, you start advancing from basic scouting to more advanced scouting skill sets.
Xecutor, I am going to use your advice on using pro builds a a gauge on how well I'm executing mine. Previously, i have just copied and not really compared it to them. Timings and all, I will now and see if that gets me into PLAT!
I myself dont like using pro builds anymore and rely heavily on what I think works and to be more reactive. I used to do like zvp 3/3 ultra timings, but toss has become so much more aggressive over the time that I switched from that to some sort of fast lair hydra/ling timing that I came up with in time. I feel more proud as well that I can make a build that I feel comfortable with, where as some pro players go for blind 3 hatch before pool versus like terran. I just dont feel comfortable, where as pro players scout like mofos and know what to expect and to do. So, copying pro player builds for me is just a waste of time if you dont have mechaniics and if you are not comfortable with it.
You wish you knew what I was doing
You don't wanna know...
I think it is important to have a build/strat they you are going for and trying to achieve in a game. If you are just building stuff on the fly you lose the effectiveness that a build offers. I think following a build for its timing is more important than necessarily executing it perfectly.
^ This except one thing. Dont follow a build for timing so much as you follow the general order/gameplan. for example PvT MSC expand. It's not helpful to a lower level player to practice getting the mothership core at exactly the same time a pro does. But it is important to take the basic principles of the build. 1 gate way, then core, then mothership and stalker, then expand, then you are free to add 2 more gates and a robo.
Adversity doesn't build character, It reveals it.
Hello Vice Admiral
personally I think its better to learn the general flow of the game that the build follows rather then a set build, and the timings that pushes are supposed to hit with the build, that way if something unexpected happens you can adjust and get back on track, lower league players that go by supply counts are easy to screw up because if you attack at an unexpected time and screw their build counts up they go all to hell, but if you know the general path the build is supposed to take you, you can just adjust your building timings to still end with the same attack,mid,late game composition
I find the most success stealing builds from replays of top tournaments, just make a note of any big game you watch if it seems standard and strong, keep checking to see when it gets released. If you have a hard time finding replays or understanding their decisions in game, then check through the day9 vods at day9.tv find one focused on your race or matchup your working on and let day9 walk you through their build.
If anyone needs help with building openings for Protoss, let me know. I can show you some skeleton builds and help you learn techniques to refine them yourself
Adversity doesn't build character, It reveals it.
Hello Vice Admiral
if you want I downloaded recently like 150+wcs reps, just let me know what mu and type of builds your interested in and I'll skim through them and pick out the best ones of that particular style and send them to you on bnet
Also Pro players have an idea of what the other persons build order is for that specific matchup and they kind of play greedy on the background of knowing if they can get away with being greedy or not against that player, or sometimes you can see the map and assume if its a map where someone will go greedy or allin and go off that to help your game plan
I would be very interested in seeing some zerg build orders, and especially some zerg vs air tips, thats definantly my weak point, but yeah I agree, find a build order for each matchup that comes so naturally over time its almost like muscle memory, made it to diamond myself with that back in the HotS days